I built 1 6x6.8 on an AR15 frame, sold it and built 3 on the Savage actions. Is anyone else shooting a 6G? Now, it’s true that you’ll see more splash from a 105gr bullet than from a 90gr bullet, but the difference is not all that great. Please understand: when I consider magazines for an AR platform rifle (other than .458 SOCOM), I mean something at or over 20 rounds. How to Respond to the ATF Pistol Brace Notice, What Gun Owners Might Expect From a President Biden and a Republican Senate, Despite Our Best Efforts, SHOT Show 2021 Is Still Happening. Using the same bolt and magazine as the 6.5 Grendel, the 6mm ARC capitalizes on the enhanced ballistics of 6mm bullets. A look at the 6mm WOA cartridge from White Oak Armament.https://www.instagram.com/johnnysreloadingbench/https://www.patreon.com/reloading But it has potential in a few areas, and it just might take off someday. A look at the 6mm WOA cartridge from White Oak Armament. Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear. 6mm match bullets for "across the course" highpower rifle competition at 200, 300 and 600 yards, although it has many other applications. 6mm ARC is so new that as of the writing of this article, published load data did not exist! Views: 94 S. snox801 Well-Known Member. Because the 6mm ARC borrows both, it too is hobbled. Can You Claim Self Defense While Committing a Crime in Wisconsin? It’s basically the 6.5 Grendel, necked-down to 6mm (243cal), and will shoot a 105grain 243cal/6mm bullet. PREV VIDEO NEXT VIDEO MORE VIDEOS. Very low recoil 58gr VMax 3400 fps with no signs of pressue. You cannot use the standard .223 magazines since the 6mm AR cartridge is bigger in diameter than a .223 and needs a magazine designed for it. Select Post; Deselect Post; Link to Post; Member. A short barrel Grendel has been at the back of my mind for a while, and the 6mm ARC might be a better choice there. For as much time as I spend discussing velocities and trajectories in this article, little of that matters if I don’t have reliable feeding. 6mm WOA – part 2. It is possible to build a lightweight 6.5 Creedmoor AR with a 16” barrel that will easily beat nearly any barrel length of Valkyrie or ARC, not only in terms of external ballistics, but also terminal performance. If hunters were unable to kill varmints and deer with .224 Valkyrie, that is something I have not been made aware of. “The 6mm ARC delivers comparable performance from a wider assortment of bullets, making it a more versatile choice.”. A 6mm AR-15 Cartridge with Factory Brass The 6mm HAGAR is a 6mm cartridge that was specifically designed for use in an AR-15. You will likely run into feeding problems with an AR-15, due to the shorter overall length, if you try loading bullets lighter than 90 grains. The 6mm AR takes advantage of the wide variety of 6.2 mm (.243 in) caliber bullets. I have read about the 6mm AR on this web site, not a lot out on the 6mm WOA. The ELD-X bullets are similarly great, but not the lifechanging product they were marketed to be. Now, Grendel fans, I know the broken bolt issue is not nearly as much as it’s made out to be when things are kept within standard pressure limits. No, not just to California. Well, some of these reviews even say that all you need to make it work in an AR mag is a different follower. You would be smart to go with 5.56/.223 Rem, no matter how it looks on a trajectory chart or how many people tell you it won’t kill a deer. I really like my Grendel but the price of brass is starting to get old. Product Release Dates and Information. I know you get a lot of shooting practice by fire forming but it would be nice to stock pile some brass without spending a fortune. Diehard Grendel folks and new 6mm ARC adoptees, eager to counter my thoughts by discrediting me as a secret lib or potentially a homosexual, will doubtless notice something worse: I have spoken highly of .224 Valkyrie in the past. All Rights Reserved. You don'yt have to run them that fast to get good groups. The 6mm ARC is a factory cartridge which has many similarities with the 6mm AR wildcat cartridge. Copyright © 1996-2021 AR15.COM LLC. A 200gr .300 Win Mag? Thanks That is, something good for everything from failure drills at 3 yards to competitions at 1000 yards, something that prints tiny groups and puts down elk, and something that needs to fit in a magazine well designed 70 years ago. What is the best barrel length? If the ballistic performance is as advertised – on par with 6.5 Grendel – and the magazines work, likely by making 6mm ARC-specific magazines and ditching everything that came with 6.5G baggage, well, it’s at least a viable option. The 107 6mm match bullets are some of the very best bullets made. As usual, there is a vague reference to adoption by a DoD group for combat purposes (remember how 6.8 SPC was pushed back in the day?). I have heard nothing but good things about .224 Valkyrie 90gr Fusion and 78gr TSX loads when it comes to hunting deer. 6.5mm needs a much larger cartridge before it can outperform 6mm with the same cartridge. .243 LBC vs. 6mm ARC? I have shot it out to 900 yards with great success, and 1200 yards with somewhat less success. FAQ 308 Win – Lg vs Sm Primers and Flash Holes. The cartridge uses a 6.5 Grendel case that has been necked-down to accept a 6.2 mm (.243 in) bullet. All Rights Reserved, Flash Sale – 10% Off EOTech – Expires 6/16/20. The old 243 Winchester can beat that by about 300 fps. It is fine for hunting if you can get 4 or 5 rounds og 6.5G or 6mm ARC in a 5.56 mag and get them to feed. I’ve already noted that the 6mm ARC has potential if 20+ round magazines work and if the ballistics are truly as advertised. The 6mmAR is a 6mm cartridge designed to function and shoot out of an AR-15. I’m willing to bet that many were using low capacity mags. No magazine length load exists above the 87 grain Hornady BTHP. But now we’re well outside the AR15 world. As usual, most mentions of serious competitors are left out of the ballistic comparisons. I also interested the 6x41 SPC that AR performance is working on. To my way of thinking, we are splitting hairs ballistically, and as always the shooter will make all the difference. Does anyone have any experience with the 6mm WOA? To everyone. Previous Thread; Next Thread ; Please make a selection first; new « Prev; 1; 2; Next » stephen243 Junior Member. Yes, the 6mm 108 will have better terminal ballistics. 6mm WOA – part 3. I do like the cartridge, and have one rifle chambered for it, using an 18 inch barrel kindly provided by Rainier Arms. 6mm WOA … Posts: 15.243 LBC vs. 6mm ARC? 2750 fps has been run with Sierra 107 Match Kings with around 27.5 grains of Varget. billmo . 0. That’s why I’m not afraid to build an AR10 type rifle when the situation calls for it, rather than artificially limit my options. If you want to build a long-range rifle on the AR 15 platform, you have plenty of factory options to choose from. Any information is welcome. 308 Win – Lg vs Sm Primers and Flash Holes. Quote. I don’t think it will be significantly better than .224 Valkyrie from a target shooting perspective, I think chasing a do-all AR15 is a fool’s errand, and I think it will be hobbled out of the gate by a lack of quality 6.5G magazines for the AR15. It is a factory alternative to the many 6mm wildcats suitable for the AR15 platform – the 243LBC, 6mm Predator, 6 WOA, 6-6.8, and my favorite, the 6x45mm, which is admittedly the weakest of the 6mm bunch. Buyers will try to chase those 24” marketing chart velocities with their 16” barrels, most likely through handloading. Okay, but you don’t have to make a 308 AR that heavy, for many lightweight 308 AR parts are available. Recently Hornady has made brass for the 6mm HAGAR under a special contract. Some brands of AR-15 magazines designed for use with the 6.8 SPC and the 6.5 Grendel cartridges work well with the 6mm AR and should be used instead of some others, to guarantee reliable feeding and function. 308 Win – 165gr Sierra GameChanger and GameKing. A look at the 6mm WOA cartridge from White Oak Armament. You likely won’t see a Magpul 6mm ARC mag unless someone follows the pattern of LWRC with its 6.8 design and changes the receivers to take a bulkier magazine. The Grendel gets … The question is, will folks be happy enough with external ballistics to keep everything under 52kpsi? Whenever I write an article critical of something, I try to think of positive things to say as well. 6mm ARC, 18", 1-7.5" Twist, HBar Contour, Helical Flute From $375.00 to $395.00 Would you really use the exact same rifle for a long range precision shooting match, with an eye on winning prizes, that you would for home defense or hunting in thick brush? So I have, for now, given up on buying rifles that bite off more than they can chew. Reloading dies are readily available. I would not, although I have certainly tried in the past. Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! 0. As usual, velocities and trajectories are derived from 24” test barrels, which are about as popular in the AR15 world as red flag laws. But if you were forced to only have one AR, you’d be dumb to pick any boutique cartridge. They lack nothing in the accuracy department. ↩ ∞ Meridian June 14, 2020, 11:03 am. Guns & Ammo’s first sample rifle chambered in 6mm ARC was a Ruger AR-­556 MPR with an 18-­inch barrel. Once the build is done I'll post up some photos as well as load development data. Frankly, I do not consider there to be a huge jump in splash signature when going to a 120gr 6.5 bullet at fitting-in-AR15-mag velocities. Which one would be the best, 6mm AR or 6mm WOA, no plans of shooting anything heavier than 87 vmax, would it be good to 600 yds? May 28, 2020 13:29:25 GMT -8 . * While 6-6.5 Grendel shooters are known to run stout pressures, the new 6mm ARC cartridge has a relatively moderate Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) rating of 52,000 psi according to the official SAAMI specifications. Which one would be the best, 6mm AR or 6mm WOA, no plans of shooting anything heavier than 87 vmax, would it be good to 600 yds? While Hornady is offering some great hunting and match rounds for the 6mm ARC, there is of yet no affordable factory ammunition for the thing. Even Sierra's 95 grain Match King must be long loaded one at a time. © 2019 Omaha Outdoors, LLC. They may end up breaking bolts. Politifact Paints False Picture While Claiming Trump Paints False Picture, Kyle Rittenhouse Acted in Lawful Self Defense in Kenosha, Omaha Outdoors Announces GOA Round-Up Option, Lack of Reliable Magazines Limit Hornady’s 6mm ARC Cartridge Offerings, It’s probably not going to be any better than .224 Valkyrie for the vast majority of target shooters, The apparent failure to develop a reliable AR15 magazine specifically designed for this cartridge will hobble it right out of the gate, Trying to make an AR15 do too much is dumb when you can build a lightweight AR10/LR308, All that said, the cartridge has some potential and might take off someday, but I won’t take it seriously until magazines over 20 rounds work reliably. The 6mm AR is a necked down 6.5 Grendel, or 264lbc, case to 6mm using 6mm PPC dies set 0.070 off the shell holder. Are you getting the 2750 out of the SMK 107 using mag length loads? Similar 6mm wildcats: 6mm DTI (6.8 SPC-based) (shoulder blown forward) 6mm WOA (full-length 6.8 case) 6x41 (AR Performance, shortened 2mm for the longer pills) 6mmAR (Grendel necked to 6mm) Whitley.243LBC 6mm Turbo (shoulder blown forward) Whitley 6mm Turbo 40 (+ 40 degree shoulder) Whitley 6mm Rat That would, to me, make it worthy of consideration. It is a factory alternative to the many 6mm wildcats suitable for the AR15 platform – the 243LBC, 6mm Predator, 6 WOA, 6-6.8, and my favorite, the 6x45mm, which is admittedly the weakest of the 6mm bunch. Finally stepping up to 6mm for varmints, mostly P dogs, on the AR platform. The 6mm Turbo 40 is also based off 6.5 Grendel brass some not big help. May 27, 2009 #2 MLC, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE 6MM WOW BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT … To that underhanded compliment, I will add that 6mm ARC will most likely be a far better choice for barrels 16” and under, especially something like a 12.5”, than the 224 Valkyrie is. +9. At least, that is what one would initially think. However, the 6mm ARC will service the military and civilian shooters more often in AR-­15-­type rifles, meaning barrel lengths will likely be closer to 18 inches. I actually laughed when I read that. Sorry for all the questions, just unable to find a lot of info on the 6mm WOA. But the Grendel is hobbled by two things: its bolt and its magazine. 6mm WOA … A Pistol Brace Ban Will Happen Someday. 6 PPC – More tests with 68gr Bart’s Ultra and N133 . As an offspring of the Soviet 7.62×39, the 6mm ARC gets some of the shared battlefield cred, too. Length refers to the cartridge case length; OAL refers to … Specials and Promotions. Thanks MLC . Any info, load data, other web sights would be a big help. But there have been issues with feeding and reliability when using rebated 6BRs in an AR-15. You will of course lose effectiveness at the magic round number of 1000 yards, but you will likely be extremely capable at ranges where a 20” 5.56 starts to fall off, such as 600 yards. The main difference is the WOA has a 30 degree shoulder vs a 23 degree shoulder for the 6X6.8. Yet, the 6mm ARC was designed to play in the deeper end of the bullet pool. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. But as highly as I think of Hornady’s products, I recall things like the buildup to the Superformance powder release or the way they marketed the ELD-X bullets as an earthshattering game changer, and I can’t help but be skeptical about any new Hornady product marketing. Even with hornady making brass its still around $65 to $70 per 100, where as 6.8 SPC is $45 to $55 per 100. Out of the same barrel length, 18 inches, the 6mm ARC is claimed to be capable of shooting a 108gr ELD Match bullet with a very slightly lower .270 G7 BC at a slightly faster 2630fps. With the larger case dimensions of 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC and the current limitations of polymer, the standard AR magwell just won’t allow for a durable polymer magazine. And of all the folks who are more than willing to estimate what pressure their handloads are, how many have stuck a strain gage on their barrel and measured it properly, and how many are just saying “well, it’s fine because the primers haven’t blown out yet”? Is there a big velocity drop from a 26" to a 20"? From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. https://www.instagram.com/johnnysreloadingbench/ https://www.patreon.com/reloading 6 PPC – More tests with 68gr Bart’s Ultra and N133. Brownells unveiled a line of exclusive barrels and complete uppers chambered in Hornady’s newly-announced 6mm ARC – a cartridge designed to optimize long-range performance potential in standard-sized AR-15 rifles. Uh, no. Stay up to date on all of our reviews, articles, sales, and giveaway winners! Even with fire forming cheap 7.62x39 brass by the time you buy bullets, powder, primers, and brass your not saving anything. The 6mm ARC’s parent case is the 6.5 Grendel, which takes its lineage from the .220 Russian and 7.62mm Soviet. First, the 6.5 Grendel uses a very similar bolt as a 7.62x39mm AR, which when inspected visually gives the impression of being paper thin where a 5.56mm bolt offers plenty of strength. This brass is exceptionally well made and very consistent and is in stock. A 6mm is probably what 6.5 Grendel probably should have been, and maybe it’s been long enough since the Grendel was introduced that people are excited about what’s old being new again. I don’t understand why, because the cartridge has been around for over a decade, and someone should have come along at some point and made a magazine that works reliably in all conditions, from hot to cold, dry to wet, and clean to dirty. As 6mm (.243-inch) has been a fairly popular all-purpose caliber for decades, there are a lot of good choices. Custom dies are available but not very cost effective. My 243lbc barrel was just finished and should be here next week. Hornady needs to do a much better job of separating 6mm ARC performance from 6.5 Grendel performance than saying “it has better bullet selection.” The Grendel still lives on in the hearts of a few die-hards and is still available from a number of sellers, including PSA, which makes some very affordable options. Good Luck. Yes. I love the idea and I have AR15’s in 17, 204, 223, 6mm, 25, 6.5 and AR10’s in 257DGR, 6.5, 308. It offers unquestionably improved ballistics over 5.56mm/.223 Rem, though far inferior to anything that fits in an SR25 mag, which is where 6.5 cartridges belong. This isn’t just an engineering problem – there is a real-world impact to this. They won’t get there, but they may get close. You Can’t Stop It. The allure of high BC 6.5mm bullets is strong, but they aren’t pushed very fast from an AR15-sized case, and that’s led to some disappointed 6.5G buyers. Who makes barrels and die? Do you have to fire form brass? 6mm WOA – part 1. 308 Win – 165gr Sierra GameChanger and GameKing. ↩ ∞ Confused June 13, 2020, 11:50 am. 308 Win – 168gr Sierra Match King vs Hornady Match. The idea of a 6mm cartridge with a case capacity in the 27-30 gr range out of the AR-15 is a great idea with a ton of versatility. Mostly the 6mm WOA rigs are built for long range target shooting with heavy bullets from my research. The 6mm BR (with rebated rims) is another AR-15 option that has plenty of horsepower for the long line. +16. The cartridge was designed primarily to shoot high B.C. But I’ve just picked up a Wilson Combat .300 HAM’R, and I think it will be far more potent for 0-300 yard stuff than any .224, .243, .264, or .277-diameter cartridge suitable for use in the AR15. This article lists firearm cartridges which have a bullet caliber between 6 millimetres (0.236 in) and 6.99 millimetres (0.275 in).. Subscribe to our email list and get exclusive access to promotions, sales events and more! 308 Win – 168gr Sierra Match King vs Hornady Match. If you’re limited by budget issues, it’s similarly foolish to pick something that, as of now, is limited to premium factory ammunition options. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. It shoots an 88gr ELD Match bullet, with a .274 G7 ballistic coefficient, at right around 2600fps. What if, unlike the hype of past cartridges, the thing has really been adopted at significant scale by a military unit, and along the way magazines that don’t suck were developed? It is effectively a 6mm Grendel, albeit one with the shoulder pushed back. How much do barrels run and how makes them? Share Thread. Any info, load data, other web sights would be a big help. The contrast between the two says more to me about the strengths of 6mm than anything else. Factory ammunition was available from the start which cost less than 50 cents per round. Joined Sep 19, 2012 Messages 3,393 Location Spring Lake Michigan. The 6mm ARC is designed to run in existing in M4 rifle platforms. Some have gone faster, some slower. But if I am going to load up a vest full of magazines and consider something to replace 5.56, I need more. And unlocking that door allows performance which simply cannot be matched within the AR15 platform. We are told that in comparison to 224V “the 6mm ARC gives hunters the ability to successfully hunt varmints and deer” and “the 6mm ARC produces a larger splash signature that allows shooters to self-spot impacts and make rapid adjustments.” What about comparing it to 6.5 Grendel? The Hornady 6mm ARC takes the 24-caliber into record territory — the slowest muzzle velocity of any commercial cartridge propelling.243” bullets. It is perfectly reliable with 6.8 SPC magazines that hold about 26 rounds. If you’ve got the money for some of these 6mm ARC ARs I’m seeing in reviews, like Barretts with Proof barrels, then you’ve got the money to build a truly lightweight AR10. Might as well call it the 6mm ARCalifornia. But they don’t seem to have done so, and that continuing lack of a good magazine will handicap the 6mm ARC. Consider this a match cartridge, that's what it's designed for. Not all 6.8 SPC mags are perfect either, but enough options exist that you can reliably shoot 6.8 SPC or .224 Valkyrie out of magazines that compare in size to 5.56mm AR15 mags. Marginally.
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